Excerpts Re: Harold Camping - from the week of Feb 24-2, 2002
I am concerned about the comments made on the opening page of this with quotations from the larger catechism and passages from the Bible being taking out of context to claim that family radio is not an instrument for carrying out the gospel.
Have we not all been sent by Christ to carry out this gospel of salvation...to the very ends of the world? With all due respect placing limitations on who can spread the good news of the gospel is simply doing the same thing the Catholicism did...
For one Harold Camping is considerably Calvinist, but hey you have called him a stranger that is basically an unbeliever.
I doubt whether you've ever actually listened to him on his programs. You are a believer I trust your judgement. Listen to him yourself. Is he emphasizing salvation by grace? Is he asking people to turn to God and ask him for mercy? Is he concerned about people not turning to their Bible and reading it? Even if he were wrong on his take on the end of the church age (now that remains a question) listen to the things he teaches, his reflections...they are all from the Bible.
Of course, I am not in agreement with him on a few issues, but he emphasizes the fundamental tenets of the gospel, which hold Calvinists together and that is important.
2. CRTA 3:51pm February 25, 2002
"Oh my," as Harold might say, I can see the need for a new discussion forum on CRTA. Maybe soon...?
Thanks for writing A.... I will make my response as short as possible. Pardon me for snipping much of what you wrote, but people can see your whole messageabove.
"I am concerned about the comments ... with quotations from the larger catechism and passages from the bible being taking out of context to claim that family radio is not an instrument for carrying out the gospel."
The "passages" are those quoted in the LC itself. The LC quote is just a reminder of the Reformed doctrine of "calling" to preach and teach.
Have we not all been sent by Christ to carry out this gospel of salvation?
We are definitely NOT all called to the public ministry of the gospel. That is the teaching behind this brief citation of the LC. This applies to teaching and writing books on theological subjects.
With all due respect placing limitations on who can spread the good news of the gospel is simply doing the same thing the Catholics did...
This is not "my" doctrine. I NEVER make up my own interpretations. I know better.
For one Harold Camping is considerably Calvinist but hey, you have called him a stranger, which is basically an unbeliever.
What he is I know not, but I know I cannot listen to his voice, for it sounds "strange" in my ears.
I doubt if you've ever actually listened to him on his programs.
I first spoke to Mr. Camping nearly 30 years ago. I have nearly a 1/2-gigabyte of his Open Forum transcripts, mp3's, searchable pdf archives, html and Word documents. I know what he teaches.
Let me close by quoting from Mr. Camping (minus his comments about family radio) some things on which I am in agreement. You see, A..., I too see what he sees in the churches, and only God knows how much I have suffered at the sight. May God visit his sleeping bride in our time.
"What is going on? Certainly, something strange is happening. ...[W]e see churches everywhere becoming more and more apostate."
"Virtually every one of us, as we look at the church we attend, and as we look at the other churches in our city, deplore what we are seeing. The worship service has become increasingly a time of entertainment. The preaching seldom, if ever, warns of the immanence of Judgment Day. Church after church feature signs and wonders..."
"Perhaps one of the most shocking experiences of the true believer within these churches is the rejection he will experience if he contends too strongly for greater purity in doctrine."
"Indeed any spiritually minded believer must admit something drastic has happened and is happening in even the most conservative of the churches."
H. C., from, Has the Era of the Church Age Come to an End?
Published and printed by Family Stations, Inc. Oakland, California 94621 U.S.A.
"And, shall we take our next caller please..."
First I must thank Ed for addressing my concern...usually when you address an opinion different from that of the moderator, others just ignore it. But you Ed have addressed my concern and treated it as legitimate.
But there remains Camping's relatively new theology- church age theology. Though Camping does not fit Ed's definition of "bible teacher" he has presented a theology that Ed has not yet refuted from the bible. And Ed you would admit from your own excellent observations and your experiences as a minister of the gospel that there is obviously something going on here in church history.....
Think about it, consider patterns of apostasy we have seen in history- The fall of Adam and Eve, the apostasy of the nation of Israel, then that of the tribe of Judah, the apostasy of the churches of Asia (from tradition at least five of the seven churches went apostate, Ed would be able to explain this better), then the apostasy of Catholicism leading to the reformation, now we have protestant churches going apostate...
In each of these cases God always created a new means...
Camping in his teaching of the "Latter rain" has described it as the means by which God carries out the gospel in the last days outside of the church...
a radio station, a website as such as this, churches that have remained faithful to the word, individuals whom through faith have come to believe the gospel
Now I am not yet a proponent of this new teaching, but I listened to Camping closely and he has not yet said anything I find to be contradicting the bible. And I think there is here something to think about. I know I'm concerned about it ...